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Sometimes, no matter how well you think you’ve learned your lessons, the world still finds ways to confound your wisdom and circumvent your insights.

Take my friend Brett, for example.

A fellow atheist, he has it as a simple, basic, fundamental rule in his life to never, ever date christian girls. They can’t be trusted. This is a known fact. Ask any atheist who’s ever made the mistake of dating a christian girl, and they will share their stories of how the girl in question flaked out on them, betrayed them, turned on them, or else just basically went wrong on them. And so, now, at the very beginning of every prospective relationship, he always asks them if they’re christians. If the answer is yes, he wisely ends it right then and there.

However, as noted, the world finds ways to confound your wisdom and circumvent your insights.

The other day, he and I were out to lunch at a local eatery, and he told me a tale of the dissolution of his latest relationship. This girl – whose name he did not offer and which I didn’t care enough to ask – had been going out with him for five months. At the beginning of this relationship, he asked her, as usual, if she was a christian. Her response, essentially, was "Well, my family sort of is, but it’s not a big deal, not a big part of our lives or anything. I don’t really care about it". Brett considered this to be "good enough". More the fool him, as it would turn out.

Five months later, he was quite, quite smitten with this girl, and thinking seriously about a future with her. It was during a discussion with her on this topic that certain revelations, if you’ll pardon the expression, came to light. As it turns out, she was a christian. And rather actively involved, actually. While it remained true that her family was "sort of" involved in christianity, it might have been more honest to say that her father was a minister at a Pentecostal church, and that she was herself a Sunday school teacher. As it turns out, moreover, she felt that her relationship with him had progressed to the point where she could now demand that he join her church as a prerequisite for continuing to date her.

Brett, dear man, is a fellow who loves deeply. And though he felt betrayed by her deception, nevertheless tried to salvage the situation. Could they continue on together and just not involve her religion? Could she go to church on Sunday and just leave him at home? If they were to have kids together, could he just not be involved in their religious upbringing? No on all counts. He was to convert immediately, permanently and passionately, or else it was over. She felt, it seemed, that they’d been together long enough that he was unlikely to say no to whatever demands she might make in order to sustain their relationship.

This was a game she’d played before, you see: As it would turn out (upon Brett’s later investigation), three previous boyfriends of hers were members of her father’s congregation; she’d forced conversion upon each of them, and then left them once that objective had been met. This was her real aim, it seemed: She was seducing people into conversion. Brett was the first one to have turned her down in this act of spiritual blackmail; the first person with the strength of character to stand firm by his principles in the face of her threat of denial-of-vaginal-access. The others, it would turn out, were all christians of other stripes; catholics and such. She didn’t know what she was getting into, trying to use her pathetic head games on a determined atheist. Brett called her a "Whore for Christ" to her face as he dismissed her from his life.

As we commiserated over this turn of events over a plate of nachos, I told him: "See, this is the problem with christians. They can lie to your face, stab you in the back, and betray you, and so long as they can then receive forgiveness from Jesus, they can be washed of all sin, and then it’s like they’ve done nothing wrong in the first place" I affected a high, feminine, baffled voice, as I asked "Why are you still upset at me? The sin is gone!". The problem, as I told him, is that their fantasy life will always trump their real life. Sure, she actually lied to you, and actually broke your heart, but in her fantasy life, she was trying to win souls for her imaginary god, and the imaginary good she was trying to do is more important than the actual harm she was doing. How can you ever reason with or expect rational behaviour from someone whose moral code is based upon non-real events and factors?

See, in her fallacious, nonsense cost/benefit analysis, it looks a little like this: "Alright, I lose a certain amount a of god points for lying, but I gain way more back by winning a new soul for christ, and then getting him to breed a litter of christlings (christlets? christopillars? I’m not sure what the accepted term is these days) using my (or some other christian girl’s) uterus, and so in the end, it works out in my favour". Brett then observed that he couldn’t believe that some christians actually use the word "god points" this way. I laughed out loud, at once both horrified and deeply amused; I’d thought "God points" was an incredibly cynical parody of the christian world-view which my friend Ryan and I had come up with some years back, but, no: Apparently some christians actually talk in these terms. These people get harder to parody every year.

In the end, he was able to laugh about it, but there was considerable ruefulness about it. Because he’d really thought he’d managed to put this kind of craziness behind him, but, as stated, life finds ways to confound your wisdom and circumvent your insights.

x-posted to atheist and, for the jolly heck of it, ljchristians

Walking a mile in the other guy's shoes

  • 12th Mar, 2007 at 7:45 AM
Cocktopus


Sometimes, we need to step back from ourselves, and our own personal perspective a bit, in order to be able to understand and identify with other people. It's all too easy to judge other people according to the standards of your own life, and your own experiences. This is a bullshit standard to hold people to, though. You need to think about their life experiences, and what factors give rise to their being the sorts of people that they are, if you really want to understant what meanings underly what otherwise might be mysterious actions. 

I had one such experience last night. 

There's this girl I know. A christian girl. The only christian girl I know, actually. Most of them annoy me too much, with their irrationality and tempermental natures. Indeed, last night, I was on the verge of simply chalking her up to being one and the same with this broad classification, and dismissing her entirely. 

See, we've spoken on the phone a number of times (having previously only known her online), and each time we speak, she ends the conversaion abruptly when I raise some point, or use some word or phrase she dislikes. I have come to call these events her "christian hissy fits". Usually, in fact, she hangs up mid-sentence, without a word of warning or explanation. Last night was one such occasion. 

We were talking about raising children, and the lessons you should or should not teach them. I was in the midst of telling her about how children are biologically predisposed towards absorbing anything an elder or authority figure tells them, unthinkingly and unquestioningly, and how, though this is actually a good survival trait for them, it has to be treated responsibly, since if they are treated in an abusive manner early on, they will tend to grow up with abusive mannerisms as their norm. 

About half-way through this, I realized she had hung up on me. I think it was my use of the term "biological predisposition", which, AT THE TIME, I took to be one of the trigger-words for her "christian hissy fits". 

But then I got to thinking. What if I'm just judging her from MY point of view? Perhaps I need to look at things from the basis of HER life experience? 

For example. I know nothing about the emotional benefits of prayer. It's not a part of my life. She knows it and I know it. But to her, I think it's an important experience. What if... in hanging up on me while I was talking to her, she was actually trying to share something special with me? 

Initially, I was angry. I was wasting my time, talking to an empty line, with nobody there to listen to me, nobody there to respond, and no hope of getting anything for my trouble as I basically talked to myself, alone, in my room. THIS, I realized, upon further consideration, THIS must be what it's like to pray!!! An experience she has EVERY day, and which she has now shared with me! I mean, granted, I don't enjoy it or anything, but at least now I'm a little closer to understanding what it must be like to be a christian. With this gift of insight, she has made it that much easier for me to be able to understand HER, which can only be helpful in future conversations... for however long they last. 

And to think. All this time, I've been assuming she was just being an emotionally immature drama queen. What a fool I was! 

(Cross-posted to Atheism)

Remember that creepy kid in high school?

  • 21st Sep, 2006 at 7:31 AM
Cocktopus

Remember that creepy kid in high school? It doesn’t matter which high school; every school had one. He was the kid that kept to himself, didn’t really get along with anyone, was probably a little smarter than the people around him, and was way too aware of this fact? He would sit at the back of the class, making snide comments about the shortcomings of the people he saw around him, read his heavy metal magazines, and whenever he was particularly moody and introverted, he would write.

He would write nasty poetry, maybe. Or violent song lyrics. Or more recently, vitriolic blog postings. Or maybe he would write elabourate revenge fantasies. You know the type; the short story about the day the school burned down, and all the jocks and cheerleaders and popular kids got burnt to death in it, while the main character – a crude analogue of the author – would stand outside, maybe with crude analogues of a few of his friends, watching the school and laughing. Or maybe it was masked gunmen. Or zombies. Or whatever.

You could read one of these stories, and see within them written a veritable roadmap of the mental problems of the author. You could see, in the traits and qualities which are punished and made note of in this story, what things he loathed. You could see in his selection of those who were punished, the people who he most hated… or envied. You could see, in his choice of descriptors, the traits which caused him the most distress and consternation. For all that he meant for the story to be creepy, or upsetting, or threatening, in the end, they always came across as sort of sad and pathetic.

I was reminded of these stories recently while thinking about the Book of Revelation; the final book of the christian bible.

As the story goes, the book was written by a fellow named John, living in exile from the Roman Empire, at a time when the Jewish cult which would become christianity was still a weird little fringe religion in the Mediterranean region. He wrote, in isolation, this bitter little story about how all the people who weren’t like him would very soon suffer this gruesome fate, with plagues and fires, and seas of blood, monsters with the bodies of scorpions, and, tellingly, the faces of women… and eventual eternal damnation for everyone who he didn’t like.

I thought about this poor, put-upon guy, sitting alone on his island, watching the mainstream of the Roman Empire thriving all around him, while he was all alone and getting crazier by the day… And I envisioned him venting his frustrations by writing himself this little story about how in the very near future, they would all suffer and die, but paradoxically still be alive in the Lake of Fire, and able to look on with envy as he and his buddies stood in the kingdom of god, in their nice white robes, where everything would be okay for them forever… And I saw for the first time just how sad it was.

The book of Revelation is nothing more than an adolescent revenge fantasy. John was that creepy kid in the back of the class, who desperately wanted to be liked, but just didn’t have the proper social skills to do it. And so, alone, fuming with sullen rage, he wrote about what he wanted to see happen to all the more popular kids. They would all burn… forever! And not just the people alive now, but everyone who’s ever been alive, and who weren’t basically exactly like him.

As I said; one of the common elements of all of these stories is how, in the traits used in these stories to describe those who were worthy of punishment, we can see what things the author resents the most. Perhaps the saddest, creepiest part of all of the book of Revelation is the passage in which he writes about the people who are worthy of salvation being those who had not "sullied themselves with the flesh of women". It makes clear one of his own neuroses; the man was plainly a frustrated virgin, and wanted to see all the people who weren’t virgins punished for their damnable successes with women.

The fact that one of the world’s most influential religions is predicated in such a large part upon the ramblings of an adolescent revenge fantasy is at once both hilarious and crushingly, crushingly sad. Hilarious, in that christians don’t seem to see the neuroses-made-bare which is the book of Revelation; they take this childish cry for help from a broken mind to be literal truth, and sneer endlessly at those who don’t share their weird misinterpretation. I’m sure that John would have liked to have been able to have believed that it was a literal prediction of things to come, but I doubt even he was that deluded. Sad, because christians today not only lack the insight to understand the context of what they’re reading; they also lack the empathy to be able to identify the real pain and loneliness and frustration of the author which is so plain to anyone who cares enough to listen to this desperate cry for help.

I have often wondered what christianity would be like today if it hadn’t had Revelation tacked on to the end of its holy book. It’s the book where the afterlife myth was firmly entrenched, and where the apocalypse myth was introduced. Absent these, I’ve often thought that christianity would be a religion which would be a lot more concerned with actual human hardship and solutions to here-and-now problems, rather than deferring them until the coming of this bizarre afterlife. Now, in light of this revelation I have had about Revelation, I wonder something new: If the bible had not ended on this note, of crushing bitterness, resentment, frustrated longing, and desire for retribution, might it have been a NICER religion over the years? If people hadn’t been infused with the simmering rage of this mean-spirited misanthrope from birth onwards as though it were a virtuous thing, might they have been less apt to bring suffering on to those not like themselves? How many people over the millennia have suffered horrible deaths because, ultimately, of the inclusion of the bizarre revenge fantasy of one lonely, angry virgin?

It brings me both chagrin and wry amusement to think that John, could he have known the pain which would be meted out as a consequence of the misinterpretation of his cry for help would have been both grimly satisfied to see his pain shared by so many, and frustrated that nobody understood him.

 

Cocktopus

So I heard this morning that Joe “Pope Benedict 16” Ratzinger visited Auschwitz yesterday to commemorate the horrors of the holocaust. Given the complicity of the Catholic church in this most terrible denial and abnegation of civilization, I could understand this event in principle. An apology is certainly in order. Indeed, tens of millions of apologies are in order, to each of the survivors and all of their families. What old man Joe had in mind, though, was a little bit different.

 

“How could god allow this to happen”, he mused to the crowd. The moment I heard this, I was filled with a seething contempt and rage. You don’t get to ask that question, Joe. You don’t have the moral authority to do so. Your church encouraged and enabled the nazis to do this. The organization which you embody at the moment wanted it to happen. Your organization states that that which the pope wants, god wants. Therefore, given the then-pope’s endorsement of these events, god – your god, whose will you purportedly represent – was plainly quite happy to see all those Jews dead. Don’t beseech a god who apparently endorses a genocide for moral clarity with regards to that very act of genocide. You would do as well to ask a psychopath to explain the morality behind his own murders.  

 

But it goes deeper than that. God doesn’t exist. As far that catholic church goes, he’s nothing more than an anthropomorphism of their own political agenda. But Joe, personally, doesn’t get to ask this question, because he’s responsible personally for the holocaust. No, not just because he’s a German. Because he was a nazi soldier. He was drafted into the German army and agreed to serve during WW2. He, like so many of his generation, put their well-being and security before any kind of morality or principles. I have heard the argument that he had no choice but to serve. I say bullshit. A man who feels that a person who claims to have no moral choice has no right whatsoever to lead any kind of spiritual movement or organization. I have heard the argument that he – a single anti-arcraft gunner – being absent from the war would have made no difference. I say bullshit. If herr Hitler had started his war and all of his soldiers had set down their guns, refusing to fight, there would have been no war. Each and every nazi soldier is exactly equally culpable with every other one for the war, and all of its consequences. He is precisely as guilty for every atrocity which occurred in that war as every other soldier who agreed to fight in it.

 

So, Joe, if you want to know how your fucking imaginary god allowed this to happen, allow me to provide you with an answer: It was allowed to happen because you and people like you were cowardly, inhuman monsters, with no sense of moral responsibility to your fellow human beings. It was allowed to happen because you soft and craven worms felt it was better to place the authority for all moral judgements in the hands of a psychopath than it was to use your own fucking brains to make the right and necessary judgements yourself. It was allowed to happen because you and people like you lacked the strength of character to prevent it from happening.

 

You don’t get to ask that question, Joe. And you know why? Because you’re asking it sixty fucking years too late. If you – and people like you - had asked it sixty years ago, then maybe it wouldn’t have happened, and then we wouldn’t now be in a position to demand the very same question of you that you would have us ask your imaginary friend. When Jeffy, in Family Circus, points at his imaginary friend “Not Me”, to place blame upon when he has himself has done, it’s amusing and juvenile. When you do the same with your make-believe god, it’s sickening. So don’t even bother to ask the question unless you get down on your fucking bloodstained hands and knees and beg the world for forgiveness when you answer your own question by begging the world’s forgiveness for having the moral paucity to have caused it to have happened.

 

You did this. You. Your generation. Your culture. Your religion. Your entire way of life. Your willingness to abrogate your moral responsibility to others. You cowardly, weak, spineless, amoral, idiotic, tyrant-pandering, genocide-enabling monsters. 

 

Question answered.

 

 

 

Tangentially, it has occurred to me, while writing this, that precisely the same argument applies to each and every American soldier who is participating in the current Iraq war. The information existed, prior to the war, that Bush’s pretenses were just that. Tens of millions of people who marched against the war in the months leading up to it knew. The presumably hundreds of millions more who supported us but, for whatever reason, did not march, also knew. You cannot plead ignorance. Ignorance only denotes your irresponsibility in failing to seek out information pertaining to the act you were about to perform, and irresponsibility does not dispel responsibility. Quite the contrary, it demonstrates your poor moral character. When you are about to take the life of another, you had damned well be certain be sure that your decision to do so is the right one. The information was free to be had. Your failure to learn it or act upon it is no more an excuse than a plea of “I was only following orders”, which, as you may recall, did not shield the nazis in the Nuremberg trials either. The only distinction I can see is that those soldiers who followed orders so as to retain their freedom until the moment they came home to begin working to end the war, through politics and civil actions, and only this because America is still putatively a democracy today, where Germany was not, as of WW2. Every American soldier who has joined the military since the information pertaining to Bush’s lies became available, and every one who has not acted to end this immoral war is exactly as guilty for every single atrocity in Iraq as Bush and Rumsfeld themselves.

 

A second tangent: While writing this, this logic occurred to me: Christianity precludes true morality, because it entails abrogating your moral responsibility to a tyrannical god. The fact that this god does not exist except as an anthropomorphism of christians’ own desire to be treated as children, with all the lack of responsibility this entails, is meaningless. Moral abrogation is moral abrogation, regardless of whether or not you put a bearded human face on it.   

Re-Framing the Debate

  • 6th May, 2005 at 2:49 PM
Cocktopus
Thinking out loud here. Sorting out my thoughts. Bear with me. I'm not 100% sure where I'm going with this.

So, for the past couple of months, I've seen things getting uglier in the conflict between christians and the forces of modernity. The christians are playing dirtier and dirtier. They seem to be getting frantic in their attempts to hold back science, and will employ and sorts of lies and manipulations that they need to in order to do so, including trying to play in the sandbox of science, using scientific-sounding arguments and scientific-sounding terms in order to appear to be playing the same games as actual scientists are in the hopes that this will allow them to win.

And the cumulative effect is preposterous. They've been telling themselves for so long now that they know what they're talking about and that they're right that they've seemingly become convinced that they're utterly right, and that science really does back up their claims. It's so completely incestuous now that they're only reading their own "findings" and arguments and treating them as though they constitute actual research and legitimate study.

It's like if you pee in the pool so much that almost the entire content of the pool is urine, you can laugh at the people who are swimming in water.

And you know? I'm tired of defending reason against these people. I'm tired of having to point out to them that nobody outside of their ridiculous little counter-intellectual microchosm for whom this is even a serious debate any more. And yet they try to claim victory, and they seem to believe it, because they don't actually have the necessary logical framework to understand why they're not even playing the same game as the rest of us. They really don't. They actually seem to think that "creation science" is science in the same way as a four year old thinks that his mud pie is actually a pie.

It's becoming increasingly clear that I demean myself by even speaking with these people. I grant them a dignity and relevance that they don't have and don't deserve, by even speaking on the same terms as them.

So, after some considerable consideration, here is my new framework for discussion with these people:

Atheism is not a philosophy. It is not my belief that god does not exist. It is not my religion, it is not even my stance. It's so far below any of that that it doesn't deserve any such terms or considerations. I simply don't believe in your specific bronze-age middle-eastern fairy tale. I don't believe in any other fairy tales either. I don't believe in Pinoccio. I don't believe in Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. I don't believe there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I don't believe the world was created in six days by an invisible man in the sky. I don't believe in Santa Claus. I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy. These are all childish notions. And I am not a child.

You christians: You're children. I want you to understand what the rest of the world understands: You believe in a fairy tale no more relevant than that of the Tooth Fairy, and with no more logical basis, and you mold your life around this belief. This is moronic. This is a personality disorder. You're a sick joke. You're a cautionary tale. You're the victims of mental illness.

And no matter how many times you tell each other that there's no evidence that the world is more than 6,000 years old, or that natural selection occurs, or that the world isn't flat, you will never become correct. And you will never convince anyone who isn't a mentally retarded emotional cripple that you are.

Because you're talking about a fairy tale.

One created by a bunch of sheep herders living in the middle east 3000 years ago, who had no logical framework by means of which to make sense of the world. We aren't bronze-age middle eastern sheep herders, we, the rest of the world. We're more sophisticated. We're more advanced. We're better-educated. We know that bats aren't birds. We know you can't cause mildew to go away by splashing bird blood all over the walls. We know the world isn't flat. The writers of the bible didn't know these things. The reason is that they were morons.

I want to be clear on this point. This isn't even an insult. It's a statement of fact. If you were to measure their IQs by today's standards, they'd score in the low 50's. And it's their vision of the world you live your lives by.

Do you understand how sick that is? Do you understand what a joke it makes you? All of you? And everything you believe in?

Do you realize how gullible you need to be to be fooled by someone with an IQ in the 50's?

Do you realize how much more sophisticated the world is than anything which could ever have been imagined by those people?

I'm tired of debating with you people. You're not worth my time. You're not worth the time of any rational human being. You're the past. You're over. Go ahead and chill out in the 10th century, patting each other on the backs for being so clever as to have been able to disprove the theory of gravity, Newton's laws of motion, and Pythagoras's theorems. The rest of us will get on with reality.

In other words, go ahead and play among yourselves. You aren't worthy of serious discussion, you never have been, and you won't receive it any more.

I'll let you know how the future looks.

Douglas Adams

  • 6th May, 2005 at 6:47 AM
Cocktopus
So, perhaps predictably, the Christians have failed to get it.

What have they failed to get? They have failed to get the fact that Douglas Adams, in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books, was making fun of them. I've heard some bleating about how the movie "ruined the story" by ignoring its "strong christian overtones".

Here's the link to send to such people. I think it's really so unambiguous that even they won't be able to brush it off.

http://www.americanatheist.org/win98-99/T2/silverman.html

To quote the late Mr. Adams from this interview:

"I think I use the term radical rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “Atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘Agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean Atheist. I really do not believe that there is a god - in fact I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one. It’s easier to say that I am a radical Atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously."

Ah, he was a wit for the ages, that one. I miss him.

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